Finding Freedom from Fear WITH JAMIE WINSHIP
During my sabbatical this summer, someone sent me three podcast episodes that Jamie Winship was in. Those episodes were some of the most transforming content I've ever heard. Jamie was sharing exactly what we all need to hear – the importance of trusting and listening to God.
Jamie went from joining the police force in Washington, DC to spending decades working in conflict zones across the globe. He is also the author of an amazing book about identity. In this final part of our three-part series, Jamie and Jennie discuss fear.
We’ve spoken about what it would look like if people lived without fear. I know that is a passion of yours. Talk a bit more about that.
Jamie: My book ‘Living Fearless’ came out of the idea of what would happen if we took 400 men for 10 hours and took away the fear in their lives. What unites people is that we're all afraid.
The greatest part of my life is understanding how the Lord intentionally draws me into places where I'm most afraid, to walk me through them. And only the greatest love does that. The greatest part of who you are is just beyond your deepest fear. The fear is how the enemy prevents us from discovering the depth of who we are, who God really is, and who others are in the world.
What separates us from people of other faiths and people who disagree with us is our fear of each other. Take away the fear, and reconciliation will occur pretty fast.
You've seen this happen in your life. Could you talk a bit more about that?
Jamie:
My prayer to God every day is: “God, I want to receive from You all that You have for me today. I don't want to do anything. I want to receive from you.”
We pray that because the only way into the kingdom of God is by receiving a gift that's already been paid for.
Jesus says the Son of Man didn't come to be served, He came to serve. So, the very first act of obedience is to receive from God. What prevents us from receiving from God is that we're afraid of Him. Deep down, we feel the need to protect ourselves even from God. As Christians, we're very good at never dealing with that issue.
Out of His amazing kindness, the Lord leads us to repentance, and to a new way of thinking. He leads us into places that scare us, and you will never be afraid of this again. Jesus walks into Death himself and comes up on the other side. He says in Hebrews 2 that He has released us from the burden of the fear of death.
It's not even death itself that hurts us; it's being afraid of death. Death to us is rejection and failure. That's a kind of dying and we avoid it in every way we can. But Jesus is saying He wants to free you from all that kind of fear so that you can live at a level beyond what you could even ask or imagine.
The Lord is constantly inviting us to follow Him. That’s the beauty of the Lord. When you go onto the other side of it, you get to the next level of who you are. You discover gifts you didn't know you had in you. The Lord has knit that together in you, and there's more than that.
When I'm sharing my faith with people that don't know Christ, this kind of sharing is what energizes humans. You can’t scare people of hell if you want them to follow Christ. That's just fear on top of the fear they already feel about everything else. And so, I'm inviting them into fearlessness.
Humans have the biology of transcendence, to grow and go up. But to do that, you have to go into your fear, guilt, and shame and let the Lord move you forward.
People are in conflict because they're afraid. Take away fear, and everything changes.
We need the capacity to take away the fear of the person we're speaking to. We can only do that by being fearless first because you can't give away what you don't have. We have to go deep into our relationship with Christ and ask Him to reveal our fears to us. The Lord does it so gently and builds so beautifully.
You've faced multiple scary situations in multiple ways with your family and with your own life. Why are you not afraid anymore?
Jamie: Because I've come to experientially believe that we're eternal creatures, which is what God always has intended for us to know and understand about ourselves. This is not the end of our journey. We try so hard to hold on to this because we don't really believe that we're eternal.
Our belief deep down is that there'll be nothing better than this.
And so, we try to hold on to this and protect ourselves. If we understood the truth, we would say what Paul says – “to live is the hard part; to die is the best part.”
I know you've come close to death, just by nature of where you tread your feet. Have you lost teammates?
Jamie: Oh, yeah. In Iraq, there was one incident where we lost the whole senior team. That's the way life is; it's a mystery. Life has been a vapor that appears for a little while and vanishes away. We had to ID all those bodies, and then come back to tell our young new team that they were now the senior team.
They were immediately fearful, of course. So, I told them they could leave if they wanted.
But decisions must always be from peace. Most of our decision-making is from conflict, and that's the worst way to do things. When we make decisions in places of fear, we make permanent decisions in temporary seasons.
Come to peace in the conflict, and then make a decision. We spent 48 hours getting rid of fear. When we were all at peace, we asked God whether we should stay or go. That was in 2004, and they're all still there, in a place of peace.
Is it hard to be in America for you?
Jamie: Not really, because I hurt for my country. I'm sad about the conflict we're constantly in at every level. I don't think we know how to do things without conflict anymore. So, I'm happy to be here because I can have these conversations with people.
All conflict is based on fear.
The main negative emotion people deal with regularly is usually fear. We cannot solve our problems with fear because fearful people can't be other-focused. All fear does is separate a room.
You learned the fear, so you can unlearn it. No one has the power to make you afraid of anything. Once you take the fear out of that room, you can become a co-creator with God. And co-creators with God can transform anything.
We can't transform anything because we’re fearful. We're all afraid and fighting to protect our little peace. Take that fear away, and this would all be different in a matter of months. That's the beauty of the kingdom of God.
What would you say to the person crying right now because they want what you are suggesting, and they don't know how to get it?
Jamie: Ask Jesus: “Lord, help me to be able to say what I'm most afraid of. Give me the ability to tell the truth about what I’m most afraid of.” Let those thoughts come, then ask the Lord: “where did I learn to be afraid of that?” You learn it young.
Ask Jesus what He wants you to know about that fear. Let Him speak to you.
Whatever identities you took on because of your fear, give them to Jesus. Ask the Lord, “what do You call me?” Listen to what He says about you and how he identifies you. Learn to move in that identity and do it every day. It’s even more powerful when you do it in community.
Jamie spent nearly 30 years living and working in conflict zones. He has many stories and so much wisdom to share. His new book ‘Living Fearless’ is available anywhere books are sold. You can also connect with Jamie right here.
