No Fear in Death with Katy Smith
Hey, this is Chloe. I'm thrilled you're listening today. A couple of weeks ago, I was sitting next to my friend, Amy, at my five-year-old soccer game. Amy told me the story about her sister, Katie, and the journey she has been on with cancer. Right at that moment, I knew we had to have Katie on the podcast because we want you to hear her story too. So get ready. Join us for this special conversation with Jennie and my friend, Katie Smith.
Let's just start, Katie. Why don't you just tell everybody a bit of your life and your story, kind of what you're in the middle of?
Well, I'm just your ordinary girl. I'm 32, and I am currently fighting my third round of cancer. I've been diagnosed three different times. It started in 2010, and I have fought against this disease, defining me and shaping who I am. The Lord has done a lot in my life over the last 11 years. This journey is getting harder, and it's getting towards the end because my most recent diagnosis was terminal.
I get to tell you this, Jenny, I think it's all your fault. Well, this last round was your fault, not the first two; I’ll get you off the hook for those.
I was diagnosed in 2010 with ocular melanoma, a pretty rare disease in my left eye. I was a senior at Baylor about to graduated. This was years ago when medicine, you know, was still light-years from where it is now. I was 21 and fought to save my eye - vision was super important to me. I was good for a while. We did proton beam radiation did all the treatments, and then was diagnosed again in 2017. It came back again in my eye. My biggest fear at that point was losing my eye. It turns out God has a funny way of timing. Not only was cancer recurring in my eye, but it was about eight weeks before my husband and I got married.
I had my eye removed about six weeks before the wedding. While most girls are getting their wedding dress fitted, I was getting my eyeball fitted. That was round two. Then I had a baby, and things were going great. We thought we were in the clear. My biggest fear, my eye getting removed, had come to fruition, and we'd moved on. Now, I was entering my thirties. While my twenties looked nothing like any of my friend’s twenties, I was holding hope that my thirties would look normal.
Then this is where your part comes in. I was reading this book. I don't know if you've heard of it; it’s called “Made for This.” I was craving that, that anything mentality. You kick off the book talking about and wanting whatever God has for you. I wanted that for me. It felt big and scary, but I had a massive hunger for it. Then, two weeks later, I was diagnosed for the third time. This time, it was in my liver and my bones, and it was terminal. This was a lot to swallow. Don't worry; I don't really blame you.
This diagnosis just caught me off guard; I thought everything was okay. I was ready to start living now and living whatever life God had for me. I was excited about it. Freshly married, new baby. We continued to fight this cancer. I'm fighting, fighting for this little girl. We went through the wringer as we tried one clinical trial after another for six months. It was awful; the trials made me sicker than the sickness itself. I went through all that, and it didn't work.
We tried the alternative method of the more holistic approach, and things were okay for a few months. And then that kind of stopped working too. This past fall, we realized we're out of options - it’s a miracle, or it's home time. My entire life, even pre-cancer, I have so desperately to see a miracle. Like when God parted the red sea or turned rocks into a fire.
Call me Gideon. I just really needed to see a miracle. We were out of options, and I had faith that God would perform a miracle for me. How many times have you prayed for healing on this side of heaven that did not happen?
I grew up in a Christian family where my dad was Mr. Music, and my mom played the piano. We went to church every Sunday, and we talked about it Sunday night. I was blessed and fortunate to have that, but it didn't give space for a lot of independent thought.
One of the things I struggled with was God’s just love for me. My parents and I are incredibly close, and it was tough to understand that if God loves me 300,000 times more than my parents do, why wouldn't he take this from me? My parents would, oh my goodness. They would take this disease from me in a millisecond and eradicate it from my body. I know it's not their call, and they are very aware it's not their call, or they would have done it by now.
PURPOSE IN OUR PAIN
God also gave me this passion for writing that I didn't realize I had through all this. It's a site called CaringBridge. It started as a way to keep my family members updated on upcoming tests and appointments. I didn't consider myself a writer; I'm the math girl, numbers are my jam. I went to school for accounting. All of a sudden, people were messaging me and saying things like, “you have no idea how your story is changing my life” and “your words inspired me to do this or to make me feel this way or pray this way.” It spread like wildfire, and that was all very much Jesus.
It hit me that maybe this was a bigger purpose in this journey. This was God's plan. I was willing to be that vessel for him. But over the journey, I interpreted that my life is supposed to be challenging and more complex than others. And then somewhere along the way, God must love me less because he's selected me for this life, which I was okay with, and I was doing it for the Lord, and I was good with it, but it took a lot for me to kind of break down Satan's lies, which is all they are. But they were deep-rooted lies that God loved me less because if he was using my story to kind of call his children to do other things, it was kind of like he forgetting about me, you know, in the dust.
This journey I was selected for is a lot less exciting and happy than Sarah Jane’s life. It's still something that I'm working with on some days. I find myself comparing and trying so hard not to compare myself to my friends; it’s so hard to be like, whoa, what did I do wrong? Do you know? And if the answer is you did nothing like you were chosen. Well, pardon my language, but that kind of sucks.
I want to say how powerful this is, Katie, because everything you feel is everything I would feel. And it's everything everyone listening would imagine feeling because it feels unfair just watching it. Do you know? I mean, you have a two-year-old, like that feels so unfair to her life and your husband's life. What's the thing that you fear the most in the midst of this?
Well, I have two—the obvious, my child and my husband. My husband and I got married three years ago. We kicked things off with my I bang. My eye was removed, we got married, and then we found out we were pregnant. And then all of this happened. So like, it was full speed ahead, and nothing was ordinary. We laugh because, at the end of this, Lord willing, we’re going to have to go to therapy because we don’t know what it’s like to have a typical marriage.
We want to grow our family. I want to have a big family. My husband is an only child who has always wanted to have a big family. Lately, we have been mourning dreams that we barely even had the chance to dream. I joke that I feel like I'm God's PR agent, which is so funny because I am so minuscule, you know, in comparison. But I know I have so many people are watching my story, strong believers who are telling me, “we'll be seeing you here when you're 85”. And then there are Christians who are watching and are kind of slowly nodding, asking themselves, “how's this going to play out?” And then, nonbelievers are watching.
I don't want God to get a bad rap if he says no and calls me home. I want this for God. I want this for believers. I want this for non-believers. I want to kick Satan in the face.
One thing you didn't say is you don't fear death.
Oh no, I'm pumped for heaven. I am. There are times where I think my family is a little worried that I'm a little too pumped for death. To die is vain, right? I'm all about that. There have been times when I wouldn’t even consider Jeff and Sadie because I was so excited to go to heaven.
Part of it is a relief aspect, I’ll be honest. It’s been a long decade of fighting this disease; I want freedom from this: no more pain and no more tears. There are people that I want to hang out with in heaven. I am more than ready to get to heaven, but I would like a little more time here.
PEACE BEYOND UNDERSTANDING
Katie, what you're saying right now, people can't honestly, I can't believe it. I feel like God has given me a measure of faith, but I still fear death. Most people fear death, even believers. Everybody listening has their jaw dropped right now and is analyzing for themselves. Would I be okay like that? What do you think has brought you to that point where there is such peace about that specific thing? Because we'll all face death at whatever point you face it at whatever point we all face it. What has brought you to that point of such certainty?
After a lot of years of wrestling, I'm a huge wrestler. If I have a question, the first place I go is the proverbial boxing ring with God. We do a lot of chatting and a lot of wrestling. Some things have been resolved, and some haven't, and they won't be on this side of heaven. This sounds terrible. I used to think that when people would pray for peace in Jesus’ name or pray for healing on this side of heaven, I viewed it as a cop-out. It felt like the thing you're supposed to say because you don't know what else to say. It wasn't until I started experiencing copious amounts of that peace and trust that I started believing it.
The other day said I was watching this verbal transaction happen. This person was going through something, and I overheard someone saying, “I will pray for peace for you to get through that.” I remember being on the receiving end of words like that and thinking, “that's not going to help me. I don't need peace. I need answers. I need X, Y, Z. I need some tangible results.”
I don’t know that that’s a very good answer. I've faced some big, scary, giants and peace was the only thing that's gotten me through. But until you experience that peace, I don’t think that you truly know the power of it.
I think it's an insanely, hopefully, answer.
HAVING HOPE WHEN YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES AREN’T CHANGING
Everybody is listening right now can’t imagine your reality. You are in your home praying for a miracle but otherwise facing death, yet you are so hopeful; your voice is so clear and sure. I think that on that day, you'll have the grace you need all of us. We can’t imagine having that grace because we haven't been given that grace yet. You've been given grace and peace that we can't understand. It's beyond understanding like the scripture says, and we're just watching this and asking ourselves, “Lord, would I have that on that day? Like, would I have what I needed?” What would you say to that? Because I know you've seen people even in front of you, not trust God and not have that peace. And what would you say to them?
I will caveat there have been many days in many and days in a row that God has felt terribly silent. I hate those days. It’s not like God gives me a teaspoon of peace and tells me to come back in an hour. Sometimes there's waiting. I don't know why he makes us wait or why he seems so silent at times.
I only guess is what we were saying earlier; I’m not to a point where I truly needed enough to receive it. Because God will give you blessings, and he'll give you all the things you need all day long. He'll provide you with healing, but unless you're in a spot to receive it, you're not going to receive it. It's just going to be sitting out there for the taking. Same as salvation. It just sits; it sits out there for the taking. You have to be the one to receive it.
BELIEVING THERE IS PURPOSE IN OUR PAIN
What does that look like in your day-to-day life? How do you receive that peace?
Sometimes it looks like a lot of anger. It's genuine telling God, “I don't know what you're waiting on, but I am physically in so much pain.” Sometimes it’s the type of anger and frustration that I’m like, you have got to give me something because I’m not going to make it anymore. I can't hold my child anymore. I used to care if she ate vegetables, and now I would just like to sit next to her at the dinner table. No, I’m throwing in the towel, but I am running out of all other options, you know?
I don't ever want to be a plan B prayer, which I think I have been a lot in my life. I am a planner. Often I would pray, and then I would make a plan B, which is not the way to be something I've been wrestling with. But in the meantime, I have realized that I am that type of prayer. So when I pray now, I trust that whatever is coming is the best thing for me, whether it may feel like that or not. Because I don't know what the big picture is, I don't know what is coming. It's just kind of desperation. I'm so desperate for Jesus on this earth. And selfishly, a lot of it's for myself and my family. I know there are a lot of world problems out there. I told God, I said, I have the mental capacity for one, right one right now. So you take care of all that. And I'll focus on this one - cancer.
Somebody is listening right now, and they're in that same boat right there. They feel like they're facing death or the death of a loved one. It's so desperate that they feel panic, and they're so angry. What would you say to them? What would you say to comfort them?
I would say two things. I would say, feel the anger and pray the prayer. Because a lot of times when you're angry, you just have mental thoughts. If I'm mad about something or I'm heartbroken over something that God has allowed to happen in my life, it's hard for me to swallow that pill. As I wrestle with its emotions, I'll find myself saying things like, I wish I could tell God, or I just, I want to tell God, or here's what I would tell God. I stopped myself one day, and I told myself, “ what is the difference? You pray all the time; what is the difference between you having these big emotions? Like anger, resentment, disappointment, and going about the prayer part are different from any other prayer request.
So I stopped, I switched my brain. And instead of saying, man, I wish I could tell God. I said, all right, God and okay, God, and let's talk God. God already knows your thoughts. He knows what you're going to pray. He knows what you're going to ask. He knows all of that, but something switched in me when I started praying like that. It opened the doorway to a whole new pit of emotions I didn't realize I was suppressing. I knew God could hear him. And I knew he knew what I was about to say and what I would ask 10 minutes down the road. But combining them with the raw emotions simultaneously made a very powerful dialogue.
So I guess my answer would be not to hold back. I know people say “I'm gonna pray for you” all the time and then moving on. If you say you're going to pray for somebody, you better be praying for them. Often, I won't even tell people I'm praying for them. I say, I just spent time in prayer for you.
LEAVING A LEGACY FOR YOUR DAUGHTER
What do you hope for your daughter? What do you hope she knows about you and about having watched you suffer? Like, what do you hope her character reflects because of your life?
Oh, you had to open the daughter can. I'm keeping a journal for her. I know that there are a lot of children's books out there. You just wrote some, and they're fantastic. As I was reading books to my daughter, I noticed that in all of these children's books, it was all happy things. Like, God loves you, not a lie. Very true. Like, God will be there for you. Not a lie. Very true. But the Bible also says, “in this world, we will have trouble.” I just want to make sure, especially if I'm not here, that she is well-equipped with how to fight those battles, and her ability to fight that battle is not from her mom.
It’s all right there in the Bible. All I want my journal to do is help. Some of those verses are tricky. You know, some of them have some big words for a four-year-old. I just want to help her navigate that. Not to deter from the scripture themselves, but as somebody who grew up in church, you would do the Bible drills, and I have a scripture back in the backs of my brains that I didn't even know I knew until somebody says it. It's one of those where you memorize them, and then you kind of forget about them, or you learn them, but you don't know what they say because you don't need that verse at that time in your life.
That's why the Bible is so cool is so ever-changing is, is I can read a verse now that I read three weeks ago, and I'm like, wow, it's a great verse. And then you look back and realize you read that last week; it’s transient like that.
I want her to know, and she doesn't need me to do it. The beauty is that so many of the people who made me, who I am today on this earth, will still be here—everything she needs to get through, anything that comes her way. If worst comes to worst, she'll be growing up without her mom. It’s going to be hard, but like there's no hard without hope. God doesn't give us hard without hope. This is what I want her to know and to be able to put into practice.
Thank you for taking the time for this. I'm just really honored to be able to look you in the eyes and hear your story. It is so affirming to me. One of my dearest friends, Julie Manning, and I told her story here before she's talked about it, but she lives with a heart condition where any time we talk, it might be the last. And yet, she has taught me not to fear death. And she has taught me to live with more intention. That’s my reality with her too. It's my reality with her too that I may not, you know, I might not make it. Living in friendship with her has shaped my life in such a profound way. It's simply that her faith is not shaken by what would be considered the greatest fear of humankind. This has been a gift to everybody listening.
I'm so grateful. I would love to close with you praying for everybody. I think how many people are listening right now, wiping away tears because they are suffering and facing something and thinkable, and they want to share your faith.
Father, we just come to you today. First of all, with arms wide open, because there are so many times, I feel like we come to you simply on a routine basis or not necessarily receptive, and we're not looking for you; we’re doing it because we think it's the next step. God, you are always the next step, and you were always the right step. There are people out there who are going through the unimaginable. And instead of focusing on their life, as opposed to somebody else's, which is where I spent way too many of my days, help them see what you have specifically for them because their life is not a mistake. It's not a joke. It's not something to be played around with. You have specifically chosen them for something that they are being equipped to deal with moment by moment; even though it feels like it, you may not be working for them at all.
One of the hardest things that we have to go through as Christians is believing you were fighting for us and feeling the exact opposite. To know that you have our hopes and our dreams, and they are positive and that you ordained us, but feel like you have completely abandoned us in the process. So God, just please help us see the truth. Help us shut out Satan’s flies. Please help us fight the emotions, fight the physical pain, just kick Satan in the face. Come down here and just rescue us from all of the trials. Even if it's just a daily, short wind, God, those victories speak volumes and lead to one more victory and one more victory, which is what we need to get going.
God, I just pray for everybody out there. I just pray that they cling to you. I pray that they know that they have what it takes to continue and not give up. And just one more step, just one more step, because then tomorrow it's just one more step, and you are going to be there every single step of the way. And you have equipped us with every single roadmap that we could need. And Lord, we love you, and we trust you. We trust you so much, even when we do not feel it, but God, we trust you, and we believe in you, and we believe in your miracles, and we believe in your healing power. Come, Lord Jesus. Thank you for everything you've done and everything you continue to do. We love you.
