Stuck vs. Free: Using Biblical Virtues to Overcome Self-Destructive Habits
with JP Pokluda
One of the reasons I love my job is that I get to talk to my friends for a living. One of those friends is Jonathan ‘JP’ Pokluda, who used to be my pastor. He has become my brother over the years and seeing him thrive in his ministry brings me an insane amount of joy. He has not-so-recently taken his ministry to Instagram, and he remains my favorite person to follow. He has Friday Q&As that are hysterical to watch and equally informative.
JP’s most recent success is a new book titled ‘Why I Do What I Don't Want to Do,’ and it might just be the best purchase of the year. I spoke to him about this amazing book, and this is the edited conversation:
Let’s start with the title of your new book. Why do we do what we don't want to do?
JP: We have an enemy, and he's after us. The enemy hates us. He hates our marriages, children, purity, singleness, our children's friends, and our entire household. He hates peace in our lives. The enemy wants to make us anxious, depressed, and distracted. Every day we wake up, he's actively trying to do this. First Peter 5 says he's like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
Lust, pornography, and all those things are in my past. That's a part of my story and journey to Jesus. And so, I feel like most days I'm fighting. If there's a door and Satan is on the other side of that door, I feel like I have my back against the door, holding it shut with all my strength. I padlock it, put a chain on it, put a bar on the door, and do everything I can to hold it shut.
Just recently, somebody recommended that I watch a show called Reacher. As I was watching the show, a strip club scene that goes on for about three seconds came on. At that moment, it felt like I walked over to that door, removed the chain, undid the deadlock, removed the bar, turned the knob, and cracked it open. I felt like I was now walking around waiting to be devoured.
I feel a greater inclination to sin in that way. After that three-second TV scene, I can’t be trusted with Instagram. And this is embarrassing to say because I'm a pastor. I can't go to the Explore page because the enemy will get me.
Not everyone has the same Instagram Explore page temptation as me. Some people struggle with comparison or mom guilt. They go to their Instagram Explore page and feed the mom guilt. So, it grows. Meanwhile, some demonic stronghold or force is pleased because he has you right where he wants you. That's actively happening every day.
So, we do what we don't want to do because we have a flesh that longs for the things of this world.
We do these things because there's a liar constantly pushing us and bating our flesh with the things of this world. We're in that warzone every single day, and it can be exhausting if you don't know what to look for.
One of the pages in the book talks about alcohol, which has been a struggle for most people, specifically since COVID. Talk about that struggle, what you see happening, and why you felt like it was important to put include it.
JP: What I've learned in 16–17 years of vocational ministry is that it's not a long list of sins that take people out. A fourth-century monk called Evagrius Ponticus came up with a list of eight sins that take people out. Thomas Aquinas later narrowed that list to seven sins, which became the so-called seven deadly sins.
While writing the book, we thought about what those sins look like today. I began to think through the hundreds of meetings, the post-affairs, the bankruptcy, and all the things that destroy lives to try and narrow the list. We narrowed the list to 10 things that destroy lives today. It's a comprehensive list of sins that could take any one of us out. I tried to make it as relevant as possible to every person who may read the book.
One of those sins is drunkenness. This is one of those things where we have many questions but don't get answers. We make the excuse that Jesus drank and turned water into wine as His first miracle. And then you have the people who hide behind the mystery of, “What is drunkenness? What can I do? Where's the line?”
And so, we tried to pull all the scriptures that relate to that and put some barriers around it that we believe are true to the text. With these barriers, we hope to help someone who consumes alcohol and follows Jesus understand how we think the Scripture is trying to help you do that in a way that honors God.
You write in the book: “Money, like most things in life, can be used for incredible good or incredible evil. It all comes down to the posture of your heart. It isn't the money itself that is evil; it's the love of money.” Talk a bit about money.
JP: Money has a great potential for good and evil, but I don't think any of us treat large sums of money like a rattlesnake. We don't see it and think it’s dangerous. We respond the opposite way. We think it’s great because it’ll enable us to do what we want to do. But there's a harsh warning that shows up multiple times in the scripture. It says you'll be lured away and trapped by your desires.
When I became a follower of Jesus, I had a penthouse condo, drove a Jaguar, and had different watches and suits for every day of the week. I wanted to be a millionaire before 30, and I was chasing the world. When God got ahold of my heart and I began to read the Bible for the first time, I realized that I’d have to change my relationship with money. Greed was the air I breathed, and I didn't even know it was dangerous.
America is generally materialistic. We believe in God; we just think He's slow. And so, we try to throw money at something to “speed” Him up. Most of us don't even think about how that is something the enemy is dragging us to. It may not be this catastrophic, tragic moment in your faith. You may just move to this place of apathy, where you go to pray but God feels far. So, you're a Christian, but you don't have any real relationship with God because your life is full of the distractions of this world.
And so, this book is really for someone who wants to be an actual disciple.
It's for someone who wants to grow as a follower of Jesus and take their faith seriously.
It’s for someone tired of being pressed into this place of apathy and settling for something lukewarm when God has called you to more.
You wrote a book about holiness, and it's very encouraging. Talk a bit about where this zeal for holiness came from for you.
JP: I was at a club 20 years ago when someone invited me to church. I thought I'd go just to pay my penance for my sins. So, I went to church with a splitting headache from the hangover, and I just sat in the back row. Someone was talking about Jesus and the freedom that comes from Christ. He told a story that perfectly captured the freedom that comes with surrender.
The Holy Spirit just hit my chest at that moment. I thought,
“If there is a God who created everything and He has plans for my life, then my life will be much better in His hands.” I prayed this “Jesus take the wheel” kind of prayer.
What's crazy is that God is so faithful because, from that day, a community came into my life. People began to help and pray for me. I experienced healing from my pornography addiction, sex addiction, alcoholism, and drug use. I've walked into all those traps, and I found a superior satisfaction in Jesus.
You talk about setting boundaries so that sin doesn't devour us. But what about that internal motivation? And how do you start from the inside and want to change?
JP: We're not motivated by a bunch of don'ts. We want to change the world, live a life that matters, chase meaning, and do things for God. We don’t particularly like the boundaries. And so, a greater motivation for us is the do's, not the don'ts. That’s what was so powerful about that moment in the back of that church. They didn't tell me I need to stop looking at porn or drinking. They showed me that God has a greater purpose for me.
Sin robs you of creativity. When I was entrenched in my sin, we would go to the bar, run up a $200 tab, go home, and wake up with a headache. The next weekend, we'd do the same thing. We’d make plans to backpack through Europe or see the world one day, and it was always on the back of a tailgate in a drunken stupor. We’d make plans to do something big one day.
I was in Rwanda within six months of becoming a Christian, talking to the government about conflict resolution. I had only been out of the United States once before that. And suddenly, I was training the government on conflict resolution in a foreign country. When you throw off the sin that so easily entangles you and run the race marked out for you, fixing your eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of your faith, God opens up the horizons.
It's not just about doing something big. It's about being faithful. When you run the race marked out for you, you find life and purpose. And that's what I want for those who are struggling to follow Jesus right now.
I do think a lot of people are struggling to follow Jesus. I feel like people are weary and discouraged. So, how do we keep going when it feels so hard?
JP: Scripture says our lives on earth are but a vapor, and I think we have to renew our minds around that. We're all in that week right before vacation, where we want to see all our work completed. We're going to be with God forever in a place without sadness, despair, heartbreak, comparison, anxiety, depression, or cancer. And we’re hungry to find that peace.
This world is too much trouble not to think about the peace of eternity daily.
I know I’ll get tripped up in my vices if I don't think that it's all going to be worth it. It is worth it. When I pursue a virtuous life, I'm walking to God at every step and I'm sleeping better. I'm finding a greater joy; the fruits of the Spirit are overflowing from my life.
Know that Jesus loves you so much He died for your sins. God raised Him from the dead, giving you the hope of eternal life. We’ll have this big reunion up there, and we’ll get to worship Him for billions of years.
We hope you loved Jennie’s conversation with JP. His book ‘Why Do I Do What I Don't Want to Do?’ is available right here and everywhere books are sold. You can also follow JP on Instagram to experience his Friday Q&As.
